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	<title>Comments on: Insert Vote, then Insert Coin.</title>
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	<link>http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/</link>
	<description>the blog for the thinking geek</description>
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		<title>By: Rena</title>
		<link>http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Rena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Love this post overall, just throwing in a bit of two cents here about some of the comments.

ESRB... It was an idea. An idea that I even think was a good idea, but that I&#039;m not happy about in execution. I&#039;m not mad at it, I&#039;m not sad or unhappy per say, but I am not happy about it.
@BandWidth, well see, getting a high rating from the ESRB still does effect stuff. Too high a rating and Walmart and the like will never sell you (Would I ever buy a game from Walmart? No. But it does matter to them if they can get out in the &#039;mainstream&#039; or not) and that is a bad, sometimes deadly thing for a game. Sometimes censorship gets thrown into the mix if the company doesn&#039;t want the rating too high.

I will pull the example of Xenosaga: Episode III. Not to say any spoilers, but this is a series with a history of cutting out the blood for the NA release. The fans weren&#039;t happy, but we lived. But in this, the last game of the series, their censoring messed up two emotional and important scenes of the game. And this was done in the name of keeping the rating low.

Rating a video game is also hard, because of just how much is there. Movie? You can just sit down and watch it. A video game there&#039;s a lot more ground to cover. So, again, I don&#039;t hate or even dislike the ESRB per say. I just think... work is needed. Something. But then I find that true for a lot of things, and what we really need is more parents who do their jobs. The reason Timmy gets the game he&#039;s ten years too young for is just as much the parents fault.

(I do point out I&#039;m of the camp that thinks parenting... ya know, is the job of the parent. Not the government or corporations. Quite frankly I don&#039;t think they should have anything to do with it, besides for the company making it clear to the parent what they&#039;re buying, since you can&#039;t do like a book or movie, and just say the adult should read/watch it first.)

Really, I wish more people would just read things like Killing Monsters by Gerard Jones....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love this post overall, just throwing in a bit of two cents here about some of the comments.</p>
<p>ESRB&#8230; It was an idea. An idea that I even think was a good idea, but that I&#8217;m not happy about in execution. I&#8217;m not mad at it, I&#8217;m not sad or unhappy per say, but I am not happy about it.<br />
@BandWidth, well see, getting a high rating from the ESRB still does effect stuff. Too high a rating and Walmart and the like will never sell you (Would I ever buy a game from Walmart? No. But it does matter to them if they can get out in the &#8216;mainstream&#8217; or not) and that is a bad, sometimes deadly thing for a game. Sometimes censorship gets thrown into the mix if the company doesn&#8217;t want the rating too high.</p>
<p>I will pull the example of Xenosaga: Episode III. Not to say any spoilers, but this is a series with a history of cutting out the blood for the NA release. The fans weren&#8217;t happy, but we lived. But in this, the last game of the series, their censoring messed up two emotional and important scenes of the game. And this was done in the name of keeping the rating low.</p>
<p>Rating a video game is also hard, because of just how much is there. Movie? You can just sit down and watch it. A video game there&#8217;s a lot more ground to cover. So, again, I don&#8217;t hate or even dislike the ESRB per say. I just think&#8230; work is needed. Something. But then I find that true for a lot of things, and what we really need is more parents who do their jobs. The reason Timmy gets the game he&#8217;s ten years too young for is just as much the parents fault.</p>
<p>(I do point out I&#8217;m of the camp that thinks parenting&#8230; ya know, is the job of the parent. Not the government or corporations. Quite frankly I don&#8217;t think they should have anything to do with it, besides for the company making it clear to the parent what they&#8217;re buying, since you can&#8217;t do like a book or movie, and just say the adult should read/watch it first.)</p>
<p>Really, I wish more people would just read things like Killing Monsters by Gerard Jones&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Video Games &#187; Insert Vote, then Insert Coin.</title>
		<link>http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/comment-page-1/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>Video Games &#187; Insert Vote, then Insert Coin.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/#comment-119</guid>
		<description>[...] unknown wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptPrime Minister Brown of England is currently launching an offensive into strict regulations concerning video games. Germany has a long standing history of out-and-out banning certain titles, adhering age limitations and deciding what &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] unknown wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptPrime Minister Brown of England is currently launching an offensive into strict regulations concerning video games. Germany has a long standing history of out-and-out banning certain titles, adhering age limitations and deciding what &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/comment-page-1/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/#comment-85</guid>
		<description>We have a hurtle before that. We need to draw a line between guys who want a ban on violence, and people *cough* Thompson *cough* who think they need to ban ALL games. We need some standards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have a hurtle before that. We need to draw a line between guys who want a ban on violence, and people *cough* Thompson *cough* who think they need to ban ALL games. We need some standards.</p>
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		<title>By: BandWidth</title>
		<link>http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/comment-page-1/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>BandWidth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/#comment-77</guid>
		<description>You know, one of the things about video game control is that most people, when reporting on these things, they don&#039;t differentiate between people who want to ban violent video games in general, and law makers who just want to limit or ban the sale of violent video games to minors.

The reality of the matter is that the ESRB does not garner nearly as much attention or respect as the movie rating system does -- and so a game that&#039;s rated M, that doesn&#039;t have nearly as much weight as a movie that&#039;s rated R.

I think the law makers who want to stem the sale of violent and graphic video games to minors need to be supported -- or at least given a fair ear -- while the ones who are looking for outright banning of the games to be slapped with some First Amendment legislation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, one of the things about video game control is that most people, when reporting on these things, they don&#8217;t differentiate between people who want to ban violent video games in general, and law makers who just want to limit or ban the sale of violent video games to minors.</p>
<p>The reality of the matter is that the ESRB does not garner nearly as much attention or respect as the movie rating system does &#8212; and so a game that&#8217;s rated M, that doesn&#8217;t have nearly as much weight as a movie that&#8217;s rated R.</p>
<p>I think the law makers who want to stem the sale of violent and graphic video games to minors need to be supported &#8212; or at least given a fair ear &#8212; while the ones who are looking for outright banning of the games to be slapped with some First Amendment legislation.</p>
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		<title>By: Xero Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Xero Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/#comment-76</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll agree to disagree here- because his current rhetoric isn&#039;t helping - it&#039;s fostering legislation like Yee&#039;s and creating precedent for anyone with a podium and a need for votes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll agree to disagree here- because his current rhetoric isn&#8217;t helping &#8211; it&#8217;s fostering legislation like Yee&#8217;s and creating precedent for anyone with a podium and a need for votes.</p>
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		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/comment-page-1/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/#comment-75</guid>
		<description>Very True. But sometimes an ally isn&#039;t in our best interest. Sometimes you really need an enemy who is ready to listen. Because when he swings a motion in our favor, it bears some weight. And as you did point out, his actions did lead to ESRB, which in my personal opinion is a phenominal system. It is generally fair about its ratings, and with store policies starting to crack down on underage purchases, it has become an even more effective safeguard. No more excusing either child or parent. There is a clear agreement between the two that a game is suitable to one&#039;s standards and appeasing to the young consumer&#039;s interest. And on the brighter end, it deflates the arguments of people like Mr. Thompson. If you have a publicly accepted assesment (ESRB) in place, his whining falls on deaf ears. Reverand Jesse Jackson put it best when he said, &quot;Thompson is a man wound tighter then a spring, and would probably think masturbation is the work of the devil. So he pretty much gets off picking on little kids. Since children these days dont keep up with the news, what are we worried about?&quot; 

But through that extensive digression, I think I made it pretty clear, Senator Lieberman&#039;s actions, though not necessarily in good intent, managed to turn things in our favor. So, in proper Rowling form, don&#039;t go looking to tussle with a hippogriff if it&#039;s already tipped its head to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very True. But sometimes an ally isn&#8217;t in our best interest. Sometimes you really need an enemy who is ready to listen. Because when he swings a motion in our favor, it bears some weight. And as you did point out, his actions did lead to ESRB, which in my personal opinion is a phenominal system. It is generally fair about its ratings, and with store policies starting to crack down on underage purchases, it has become an even more effective safeguard. No more excusing either child or parent. There is a clear agreement between the two that a game is suitable to one&#8217;s standards and appeasing to the young consumer&#8217;s interest. And on the brighter end, it deflates the arguments of people like Mr. Thompson. If you have a publicly accepted assesment (ESRB) in place, his whining falls on deaf ears. Reverand Jesse Jackson put it best when he said, &#8220;Thompson is a man wound tighter then a spring, and would probably think masturbation is the work of the devil. So he pretty much gets off picking on little kids. Since children these days dont keep up with the news, what are we worried about?&#8221; </p>
<p>But through that extensive digression, I think I made it pretty clear, Senator Lieberman&#8217;s actions, though not necessarily in good intent, managed to turn things in our favor. So, in proper Rowling form, don&#8217;t go looking to tussle with a hippogriff if it&#8217;s already tipped its head to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Xero Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/comment-page-1/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Xero Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/#comment-74</guid>
		<description>I take a stab at Senator Lieberman because it was his early campaigning against the industry (shortly after Mortal Kombat hit the arcades) that started the longterm ball rolling. It did lead to the ESRB, but that was simply a catch-all to keep the government out of a form of media that they refused to (and still do on many levels) put on equal footing with Television, Movies, and Print.

Every now and again, the Senator throws in his two cents on the matter- usually in the wake of something Mr. Thompson or Senator Clinton crows about. He&#039;s a nice guy otherwise, I&#039;m sure; but the fact remains he&#039;s not exactly a gamer&#039;s best friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take a stab at Senator Lieberman because it was his early campaigning against the industry (shortly after Mortal Kombat hit the arcades) that started the longterm ball rolling. It did lead to the ESRB, but that was simply a catch-all to keep the government out of a form of media that they refused to (and still do on many levels) put on equal footing with Television, Movies, and Print.</p>
<p>Every now and again, the Senator throws in his two cents on the matter- usually in the wake of something Mr. Thompson or Senator Clinton crows about. He&#8217;s a nice guy otherwise, I&#8217;m sure; but the fact remains he&#8217;s not exactly a gamer&#8217;s best friend.</p>
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		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/comment-page-1/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spwug.com/2007/09/20/insert-vote-then-insert-coin/#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Truly just blown away by your statement here, I applaud the beauty of how you once again prove that we gamers are not the raging psychos the government pins us to be. But towards the end, I did come up with a question. What was with the snipe at Senator Lieberman. Being more specifically my senator, I would like to come to his defense in that when I had a breif oppurtunity to speak to him one on one, he confided in me that he takes a case by case mentality to video games. Some games need squashed, but many others should not even be touched. It is not necessarily a characteristic simply of violence, but more of its realism or bias. When given a specific example, Lieberman took no great offense to Grand Theft Auto, but found a cluster of RPG games to be metaphors for bigotry, or in games such as Postal, the chances that it could actually happen concerns the Senator. I won&#039;t argue if he has more to fear from a raging gunman living in a van, to another man driving a tank around Miami. I am however what statement exactly you&#039;re making regards to.

(by the way, unlike every other gamer ever, I liked Shadow the Hedgehog. And I make that statement after playing it just after finishing my original sonic on sega, so no yelling at the gamer for not knowing what he&#039;s talking about :P)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truly just blown away by your statement here, I applaud the beauty of how you once again prove that we gamers are not the raging psychos the government pins us to be. But towards the end, I did come up with a question. What was with the snipe at Senator Lieberman. Being more specifically my senator, I would like to come to his defense in that when I had a breif oppurtunity to speak to him one on one, he confided in me that he takes a case by case mentality to video games. Some games need squashed, but many others should not even be touched. It is not necessarily a characteristic simply of violence, but more of its realism or bias. When given a specific example, Lieberman took no great offense to Grand Theft Auto, but found a cluster of RPG games to be metaphors for bigotry, or in games such as Postal, the chances that it could actually happen concerns the Senator. I won&#8217;t argue if he has more to fear from a raging gunman living in a van, to another man driving a tank around Miami. I am however what statement exactly you&#8217;re making regards to.</p>
<p>(by the way, unlike every other gamer ever, I liked Shadow the Hedgehog. And I make that statement after playing it just after finishing my original sonic on sega, so no yelling at the gamer for not knowing what he&#8217;s talking about <img src='http://www.spwug.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
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